Monday, 16 December 2013

The Ayahuasca/DMT new LSD Culture Debate

I received this email today from an a person who wishes to remain anonymous following a radio broadcast myself and Adam from did last night concerning the potential social/political implications of DMT (culture) becoming the new LSD. The following information I believe is an important addendum to last night's conversation:

Thanks for the show last night. It was thought provoking. I guess you knew I might pop up with a response. Got me thinking so, seeing as you are taking an interest in the subject, here’s my opinion as someone who has investigated the subject of DMT/Ayahuasca in an experiential way, for what its worth. 

I think you know I am not a believer or a joiner and I’m not naïve so I feel able to fully try things out without being taken in or mentally overtaken by them. So far at least! I’ve done about 20 of these ceremonies. I would do it again because on the whole I found it beneficial. I’m not interested in smoking DMT, it holds no appeal to me. Don’t worry, I’m not going to bore you with the details of my personal experiences or proselytise to you about it. 

Firstly DMT is already illegal and has been in the UK since 1971. I’m not sure about its status in Ireland but it seems to be a class a/schedule1, illegal drug pretty much everywhere. When Ayahuasca ceremonies started gaining popularity 15 years or so ago they kind of sneaked through the legal system due to the fact that a) it was unknown and b) you had to combine the two plants in order to get an active substance and on their own neither plant was practically illegal. 

Police raided a ceremony in the UK organised by the Santo Daime church in Devon in 2010 and set a precedent for prosecuting the Ayahuasca brew as being DMT here. Up until then ceremonies were taking place regularly and were fairly openly advertised. That has now stopped although a few underground ceremonies still persist. Some countries like Holland, Switzerland and Spain haven’t yet fully banned the Ayahuasca form, although they do have clear laws against synthesized DMT. I’ve been trying to find its status in Ireland but, so far can’t find anything clear.  (been illegal since 2003 - Thomas)

It’s already very much a religion. The Brazilian Santo Daime church and the União do Vegetal, (UDV) have been holding Ayahuasca ceremonies since the 1930’s. The Daime church is not an alternative or hippy scene thing; its members are ordinary people from the barrios of Sth America. The UDV have special dispensation to use Ayahuasca in some countries, (including the US) on account of them being an official church.

Most of the ceremonies in Europe were in the Daime style, meaning they take place in a lit room and involve music and dancing although they have become more hippyfied and new age because of the people attending and now running them. With Ayahuasca now banned in the UK, Daime people have stopped doing ceremonies. This has probably contributed to the rise of the dodgy “gringo shaman” with westerners getting involved in putting on ceremonies both in their own countries and in the Amazon.  I’m not really into the happy clappy ceremonies… they scare the pants off me! 

The visions that people get smoking synthesized DMT in a city seem to be very different to the ones people get with the natural Ayahuasca brew in a church or jungle setting. 

Smoked DMT seems to create rather digitized, mechanistic visions in some people with technology and alien visitations being a feature. This is not surprising as most young westerners are now completely immersed in technology and sci fi mythology.

In a shamanic context, Ayahuasca ceremonies take place mostly in the dark with a “maestro” or “maestra” singing and performing healing rites and casting out bad spirits etc. The visions are more nature based, featuring plant and animal spirits with shamanic type effects occurring like transforming into animals, healing phenomenon, mini-deaths, divination etc. 

In the Daime church the visions are more about celebrating community, evoking collective feeling, humility, devotion, prayer and mutual support. The Daime church is considered a syncretic religion in which religious figures from all over the world are honored at their alter.  

It seems reasonable to conclude that a) the nature of the “mareacion”, (Ayahuasca visions), largely reflects the context and form in which the substance is taken and b) the visions will also highlight the unconscious preoccupations of the taker.

DMT is never, in my opinion, going to become popular in the way that LSD was for three main reasons.

1) In its smokeable form, it’s way too intense and will therefore remain of peripheral interest to psychonauts and as a short-term obsession with a few wild kids in the same way that smokeable salvia divonorum is. 

2) In its Ayahuasca form it’s too difficult to produce. Therefore it’s going to stay largely within the context of formal ceremonies. Ceremonies have steadily increased in popularity over the last 15 years and may become slightly more popular in the near future BUT, because they are now banned in most countries, taking it, increasingly involves a trip to the Amazon, something the average person is not going to do. So in the near future it seems likely that Ayahuasca use will peak and then trail off.

3) Unlike LSD it is almost impossible to produce it as a pill or ingestible liquid and no such thing is currently available. The construction of a “half life” pill that is first able to release the mao inhibitor then the DMT molecule in the right quantities and at the right time involves very sophisticated technology that only big pharma is capable of mass producing.  So it’s not going to become a party drug like acid, MDMA or even mushrooms any time soon. With mushrooms its possible to neck a few and head off out. You just can’t do that with Ayahuasca or DMT. 

I think you are right about Ayahuasca being about to break fully as a story in the mass media. All the signs are there and it’s already starting to. As a result, even more people who have been doing it will come forward and sing its praises and of course there will be a backlash that demonises it and incidences of abuse will be brought to light that put people off. They already are.

Can it be co-opted by the PTB into something they can use to their advantage?

Outside of a few nut-jobs, nobody I can think of who has done it, sees it as a quick or easy fix because, as you know, for most people, it’s an uncomfortable, sometimes terrifying ordeal that faces you with a whole heap of denied aspects of your unconscious, not to mention your own mortality. 

I have seen a couple of cases of ego-inflation and saccharine new age fakery with it mind you but, I suspect they were that way anyway. It’s certainly not the norm. It’s probable that those people are the most vocal about it so they seem to represent it… they don’t! In reality, the Daime Church goers, are quietly and by far the biggest group of people using Ayahuasca today. 

The thing that is positively different about Ayahuasca when compared to other psychedelics is that for the 3 reasons I mentioned earlier it is likely to remain held within a ceremonial setting, which is not a bad thing. Although some dodgy fuckers are and will run ceremonies and there will be more nasty incidents. No doubt!  


  1. Very interesting show. I found the idea of a DMT/Matrix style film that will inevitably surface funny. It will probably be called something like `SpritWire` or `The Soul 2.0`
    Russel Brand will be a nerdy but sexy tech head from Silicone Valley who has to go to Peru (although he doesn`t want to-because he doesnt like to be away from his technology) and meets up with some sexy Philosopher chick who turns him on to DMT and they both go on an adventure- but theres a load of Squares from the 1% who dont want humanity to find out about the Spirit mollecule and Russel Brand discovers a way that he can hack the spirit mollecule into his futuristic smartphone and text it to the 99% (thats us, you square!!) and in the end, after saving the world, he takes his philosopher piece of ass on a march-both wearing $5 Occupy slave worker masks.

  2. It's like this:

    On the "left" side there is satan (the lie itself or perversion/delusion), mind only. On the "right" side is Jesus Christ (or Krishna, or Mohammed, or Love/Wisdom), heart only.

    So...what is better? To be deluded by not suffering at all because of the lack of heart or suffering because of the lack of a propper (divine-mind) and the understanding of the circumstances you find your self in?

    There is no free will in none of us. WE ARE FREE WILL. Either the will to serve satan (the lie, perversion/delusion) or the will to serve the divine most High (Love/Wisdom). You are born AS free will. You may not know it now and think that suffering is bad und unwanted. And is. But you only suffer if you don't know yourself. If you examine your life propperly you will see who is running the show for you.

    You suffered? Well...good for you...somehow...because it means: You have true emotions! You felt good all the time? Well...bad for you...because you have no true feelings.

    If Truth kicks suddenly know: I AM THAT!

    (There is either bad or good. There is absolutely nothing in between. There is no neutral ground anywhere. You are either THIS or you are THAT. Nothing in between at all!)

    If you have all the "good" stuff like: a big house, a nice car, a new mobile-phone, a pretty lover, some money in the bank-account, some nice party-invitations, lot's of friends etc. you are most likely a pretty much fucked up semi-pervert who is just not aware of it.

    If you are almost alone, no TV, almost no money, very very few friends, suffered from are most likely a pure soul who is about to wake up to your true nature that is JOY (eternal joy, of course!)

    Don't forget: You have no free will at all. You are free will! Right from the beginning. whom do you belong?

    Will you know it by now?

  3. What a substance will do to you (any kind of "drug") depends completely on this:

    1. Your own true nature.
    2. Drug, set and setting.

    If you use a substance in a group and there is one pervert (psychopath) in it, it will effect the experience for you. Guess in what direction?

    You do not need to take a substance to know yourself. Although it can help but it can also screw you completely.

    Examine your life propperly, every little detail, and ask yourself:

    Is this the idea of a loving and wise entity?

    Was this the vision of a beautifull, true and good artist?

    If I would be a complete pervert, what would I do to screw Truth? (Yes, it is neccessary to try to think inside the perverse "reality" to get the full picture of it's true nature.)

    What is sadism and what is its aim?

    What is tenderness and what is its aim?

    What is the "weapon" of the perverted mind?

    What is the "weapon" of a loving heart?

    USE YOUR WEAPON! And you will see who is stronger.



    Can un-truth win? Is that possible?


  4. Here is what I have to say:

    You don't need no substances to know yourself!

    Fuck drugs!

    You don't need no "knowledge" to know yourself!

    Fuck knowledge!

    You don't need no information about "reality"!

    Fuck "reality"?

    There is no reality beside yourself...YOU...knowing yourself...knowing...only constantely knowing...remembering yourself...KNOWING...remembering yourself...

    Fuck knowledge! (Only the ones who don't know themselfs need knowledge. If you know know...just know...never forget...what you are...IF you are!

    Nothing can beat me! Nothing can overcome me! Nothing can harm me! Noting can avoid MY judgement!


  5. After maiking the first post above this morning I watched the Spirit Molecule Documentary ( man what a bunch of flakes in that- and I think this Joe Rogan is dodgy as f***-honstley-a mixed martial arts specialist who does DMT??- I`ve tried to study 2 martial arts in my lifetime which I have failed miserably at but-man-most of the people that I used to train with wouldnt even touch a Paracetamol), and then I watched the Alex Gray documentary. Although i dont buy this thing about Terrence Mckenna being CIA (is there any proof apart from this `I went to work for them` comment which sounds to me like a joke???-Id really be interested to know more as I saw him speak years ago..anyone??) I think this Grey guy is another flake/dupe. Whilst he is admittedly, clearly a technically gifted artist my basic impression of his work is that its just one step UP from a day-glo poster of an alien smoking a joint with `Take me to your dealer!!` written across the top. After my brother watched it he came up with a probably more accurate comparison- that is that its like ` the creepy, soulless paintings in the Watchtower magazines and the Denver Airport murals.` Exactly. Or those `theres something about this I dont like` pictures in the Science Of Self Realisation book. I also dont like the way he uses all these religious symbols- its kind of like `look its Ganesh, and a Tibetan Vajra-if you dont like my art you dont like Spirituality.` Its got puppies and kittens?? Whats wrong with you- do you hate Kitttens?? And prostrating to Eyes in Pyramids??? Its like what the One World Religion would be like if it happened. A Glastonbury weekend workshop on a Global scale. I went to this wierd Tibetan Buddhist offshoot `cult` centre many years ago once (I cant remember the name) in the town of Glasonbury, and they had all these weird new age/Tibetan paintings everywhere and both me and my friend who took me there both got headaches after about half an hour and had to leave. This Alex Grey art almost gave me the same feeling. I think the best word I can use to describe how I see it is `Sickly`. And finally, notice how in the documentary he talks like a cross between Terrence Mckenna and a hypnotist. And, please, if he is so spiritual why does he spend the whole time bigging himself and his wife up. In a word- `NO.` Im not `aving it. You could probably learn more about spirituality from Liam Gallagher. And he`s a mega-twat.

  6. Regarding Terennce McKenna it's like this:

    You watch his talks without ANY emotional involvement, like you are watching you washing-mashine doing your loundery. And do NOT listen to the words but to the sound of the words and let your intuition listen to the meaning. Stop his talks and let his "meaning" sink in. If you do that without emotion, only with intuition, you will see what he is actually saying. You don't need no prove to recognize the mechanical voice that is talking. You don't need no "outer" prove to feel the un-emotional tone that is talking. You don't need no outer prove to think, "äähhh...what did he say right now?" It's very easy.

    And yes, Alex Grey is the same kind of "energy" or "intention" althought he is very sophisticated in his art. He has the same kind of mechanical tone, the same kind of artificial vibe in his voice, just like Terannce McKenna has. Why? Because they both lack true emotions., althought they are interesting artists and philosophers. Or look at Ken Wilber. It's the same thing. They all have the same "vibe". Can you see it?

    But it does not mean that their work has no value. It has. But it is very, very difficult to discern the TRUE meaning of their work from what is presented on the surface.

    Once you trust yourself, you will see and smell and hear it all the time. It's easy to recognize. It's not a big thing at all. You just look dispassionately and at the same time with all the passion (for Truth) you have and it will be in plain sight.

    Just try it. In the beginning it is a bit like being seeing two different things at the samt time...but once you get used to it you see and hear it easily.

    It's all about recognizing INTENTION. But intention is subtile. It's not obvious. It's behind the words, behind the picture, behind the surface. To feel it...needs a little bit of training. So...go for it...and see for yourself!




  7. Yes, Alex Grey's art and Ken Wilber's philososophy seems to be like this:

    The are somehow screming into your face: Here it goes! It's like this! You better belief it because I'm so sophisticated! Moron! It's like this! You better see it!

    To me, they are kind of loud...kind of a baby....not subtile at all...

    They are like this: THIS IS FACT! Can't you see it, stupid!

    They have this flavour that is penetrant and persisting. They don't "allow" your own vision because they seem to scream: HERE IT IS! IT'S LIKE THIS!

    Fuck them!


    Slap them!


    Punch them!


    Just ignore them!

  8. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.